I enjoyed your website. My name is Michael B; I'm a dentist in Los Angeles, CA. My father was Charles I. B MD, who was medical director at Lockheed in Burbank from about 1950 on for over thirty five years. He was very active in aerospace medicne and of course was intimately involved with all of Lockheed's test pilots during the development of its many aircraft designed by Kelly Johnson. I have always been interested in flying and the history of flight. I have a private license but have not been an active pilot in a number of years but I do have great interest in anything flight related.
I'm contacting you because I came across a webpage from you regarding the Lockheed Jetstar. You show a picture of the aircraft being craned out of a field from an off airport landing in 1962 stating that it was near the Burbank Airport. I was in 11th grade at the time and was working in our backyard in our family home in Northridge, CA. I saw the aircrft fly in from the West over our house flying very low heading toward Van Nuys. Of course I recognized it as a Jetstar. The plane turned South and then back West (South of our house) and went down below my visible horizon. I quickly got my dad out of the house and we drove to the crash site. The pilot had landed in a plowed field (developed shopping center today). I'll never forget seeing the length and depth of the furrows that the main gear left in the field (I think that he did have the gear down).
What irony that one of the first people at the crash site was Lockheed's medical director who also happened to be an expert in aircraft accident investigation! I also recall that the pilot, Vern Peterson, lived in our area. Maybe he had prior knowledge of the condition of the plowed field. Interesting that you think that the NTSB has no record of this incident.
Please let me know if you received my email; I'm a real fan of aviation history, especially regarding Lockheed. Via my dad I had the honor of meeting Tony Levier, Fish Salmon, and even Col. John Stapp of the rocket sled fame.
Michael B. DDS
I asked Mike if he knew who the pilot of the airplane was, as I have several names. He responded:
Thanks for responding. Unfortunately, my dad died in 1993. He was involved in high altitude pressure chamber work at Lockheed's Rye Canyon facility and was one of the pioneers in the field of aerospace medicine (past president of the Aerospace Medical Association, Airline Medical Directors Association). Some of his areas of research were the effects of rapid decompression and hypoxia. He also taught courses in human factors in aviation to many pilots world wide through the University of Southern California. I don't recognize the doctor in the photo. I'll check with my mother who is still living if she recognizes him as a Lockheed person. I enlarged the photo of the Jetstar crash and I recognize the Santa Suzana hills in the background verifying that this was the same Northridge crash that I witnessed from my house. It was not near Burbank or Sunland but actually west of the Van Nuys airport. Fish Salmon probably did visit the crash site as his house was also in Northridge close to ours. I spent many hours with him in his garage rebuilding my old Matchless motorcycle. I'd love to visit the museum and the Boeing plant in Seattle some day. I hear its very impressive.
Dear Mr. Bogash,
About a week or so ago I was referred to your Boeing Plant 2
web site pages which was an amazing account of the end of an era of and history
of Plant 2 and moving the stored aircraft out of there. The documentary you
have compiled there is awesome.
It is truly inspirational to me and I would hope to appreciate it for years to come. I am very nostalgic about Boeing and Plant 2 as I not only have lived in the Seattle area for the last 55 years but I also worked a short stint at Plant 2 as an engineer in the 50’s while the B-52 was being manufactured there.
I want to thank you for all the effort you have obviously put in to assembling this web site. It is by far the most comprehensive and best accounting of its type I have yet seen. Your passion for aviation shines through brightly.
It is surely a treasure describing the “End of and Era”.
Thanks for all your many contributions to aviation.
Jack H.Sumner WA
My name is Ann B. and my son, Matthew, worked for Boeing on the fuel system for the Dreamliner. He was killed in a motorcycle accident in September 2009. He had been so proud to work for Boeing and we often went to visit Boeing and see the museum. He worked very hard to earn his masters degree and always considered it an honor to work for Boeing as an engineer. Thank you for your Boeing history, it's an amazing company.
I recently discovered your wonderful website "Welcome to Trains, Planes,
and". The section on the 727 Prototype Airplane N7001U immediately drew my
attention. I have about 14,000 hours in various models of the 727 as copilot
(10 years) and captain (11 years) for United Airlines. A total of 21 years
of my 37 year professional pilot career were spent flying the fast, nimble
and able 727.
My log book shows that on July 22, 1984 I flew a 727 from San Francisco to
Oakland in 4 minutes off to on. Another time I remember flying one from
Oakland to San Francisco in 3 minutes but I can't find that one in my log
book. I am not sure any other commercial passenger jet could do that except
the 727. The 727s very effective speed brake was what allowed this to be
done. You could hold 250 knots to the outer marker then close the thrust
levers, extend the speed brake, call for the landing gear down and start
down the glide slope all simultaneously. You then called for the various
flap positions as the airspeed slowed and be stabilized and engines spooled
up by 500 ft. You retracted the speed brake as soon as the flaps started
down to keep from getting a warning horn.
I also flew the 737-100 and the 747-400. Consider this a blanket thank you
to each and every one of you dedicated Boeing Builders for building those
great airplanes that kept me, my fellow crew members and the thousands of
passengers I flew safe and sound for all those many years.
I am attaching a photo of me as a youngster in my 40s standing by "The
Spirit of Seattle" showing United nose number 7301. This is N7001U the 727
Captain G. T. "Tom" McCullough
United Airlines Retired
I was just forwarded you collection of pics and memories. I hate to say
it, but it brought a tear to my eye.
For I grew up in Seattle, my grandmother worked at the plant back in WWII.
Though she must not have been
much of a riveter, she told me she just kind of hung around the factory,
and was told to look busy when the army brass was around.
My father worked as a assembly tech back in he 50's on the B-52 line,
shooting rivets. he sure couldn't hear too well!!
I started in Avi at the Renton plant in '78, Payloads group working on
727's. Nowadays, a engineer at Gulfstream in Sav, working on the best biz jets
known to man.
Anyway, thanks- you made my day.
Senior Design Engineer
Your site was passed on to me from a retired PanAm employee. Great site, and I only wish I was closer to volunteer at the museum. I'm a 71-year-old GA pilot (I fly a 1970 Cessna Cardinal out of Leesburg, Fl.) and came about my interest in aviation through my father, who was a PanAm mechanic at the Cocorite seaplane base in Port of Spain, Trinidad, West Indies, from the late 30's to around 1950, and later with BWIA, a BOAC subsidiary.
After the war my father somehow acquired a collection of old airplane parts and kept them under the house, where they became the ultimate boys toys. Part of the collection were two timed-out Rolls Royce Merlin V-12 engines, most probably out of scrapped RAF Hurricane and Spitfire fighters, which were a common sight in wartime Trinidad. The engines were slowly dismantled over the years by a voracious group of barefoot boys, eager to find out what the insides looked like, and who were unfortunately very careless about where the parts ended up. We had no idea how valuable these engines were to become later.
A very early memory was my father taking me on a tour of a Boeing Clipper moored in Port of Spain harbor and I recall being allowed to climb up on the wing through an access door in the roof of the cabin. Those airplanes were small compared to the giant wide-bodies of today, but to a 4-year-old child they were huge and exotic. My mother's family owned a cocoa plantation west of Waller Field, an AAF air base that was part of Fort Reid, where B-17's and 24's refueled before flying across the Atlantic for North Africa. Trinidad was also a very active sub-hunting base, as German U-boats were quite active in that area, because of the oil fields and tanker activity.
Some years ago, while exploring a remote part of the plantation, remains of a crashed B-24 were found, almost completely absorbed by the jungle. If I remember correctly, human remains were found, and US military were immediately called in to recover and identify them. Waller Field in later years was abandoned and became a fabulous sportscar racing site. Raced my Austin Healey there many times and remember clearly the super-long concrete runways, full of weeds but still useable.
In 1954 my father took the entire family to England while he oversaw the production and delivery of four Vickers Viscounts for BWIA service, the first turbines for the airline, which had flown DC-3's, Lockheed Loadstars and Vickers Vikings since its beginning. While in England I visited the location (I think it was Farnborough) where the Comet fuselages were being tested in huge water tanks for the famous fatigue analysis of the window fracturing that brought them down.
Terrific site, and I hope you get a ton of contributions.
Regards, Bill C.
Scott, could you reply to whoever did this, and tell him I was impressed and really appreciated his work. My birth father died in a B-17d; "LuckyLinda"; over Germany. My adopted dad was shop forman @ plant 3, in chargeof motor controls on B-17's.
Since you seem to be the "World's authority" on the B-737 I have a question for you. I flew the B-737-200's and -300's for about 28 years and 14,000 hours first, with Pacific Western Airlines, then Canadian Airlines International, and then after a corporate merger Air Canada. I was Based for the most part out of Vancouver, B.C.. As you may know Pacific Western airlines had a few "dump trucks", that is B-737's with the "Combi" configuration and the "gravel kits" on the Landing Gear. These aircraft were operated mostly in the far North and up into Canada's Arctic Circle however we saw them on occasion on the west coast.
I had heard for years that a "gravel equipped" aircraft was used by Boeing to test landing on semi or unimproved soft landing surfaces. These tests, the story goes, were conducted at the small grass/turf airstrip located near the small town of Hope, British Columbia about 90 miles East of Vancouver. This airstrip is about 5000 feet long but has no infrastructure or commercial air Service. It is used mostly as a "glider-port" for the "sail-plane" enthusiasts. Perhaps you know something about this rumor??
A great website by the way on the Boeing History etc.. I very much enjoyed it.
Captain William (Bill) G. (Retired)
Boeing developed the gravel kit during the summer and Fall of 1968 - first using high speed cameras taking movies of gravel spray off tires from a truck-based rig. Eventually, they out-fitted an airplane and did some real flying. And yes - the rumors are right - we used the strip at Hope, B.C. I don't know if it's considered "grass" now, but in those days it was more "gravel." And - here's the "proof."
Some one that is in Ireland sent me the e-mail about the Closing of BOEING Plant #2
And there was a note with it that you would like to hear from people who liked it and stores about WWII planes
Well we lived in Ann Arbor Michigan during the time they were making the B24 at the Willow Run bomber plant and we would see them flying over the neighborhood every so often.
I saw a B29 once near the end of the war; you could tell it wasn’t a B17 because the nose was longer.
There was a lady who lived in the neighborhood and she worked at the plant and she would bring home scrap aluminum tubing that wires were run through and we kids used them as bean shooters,
Boy you could shoot beans for a block because some of the tubes were 3 feet long
You probably know that the Yankee Air force museum is back now after the big fire
As a finale note my two WWII planes were the B17 & the Lockheed P-38 Lightning.
Well I thanked Maurice Ahern in Ireland for sending it to me and I want to thank you for putting it together too
Ralph S. I’m y 80 years old now and live just east of Dexter Michigan and Dexter is about 7 miles west of Ann Arbor
Well thanks again
thank you for posting this, a number of the planes produced in this building had a direct impact on my existence and life. first of all my dad survived 35 bombing missions over europe in the ball turret of several of these great ladies produced in this building. she always brought him home and some years later i came kicking and screaming into this world.
then some years later a I worked for southwest airlines which utilized the 737's exclusively, the reliability and lower cost of operation of these hearty aircraft was a facet of the airlines success. providing me and my family a comfortable income during times when airlines were going bankrupt left and right.
so yes, I owe a lot to this humble building and the history that has rolled out her doors.
Dear Mr. Bogash,
Hello, I would like to introduce myself; my name is Charles F. and I am a huge fan of yours. I came to know of you from reading about you through the retired Boeing employees association.
I have been an aviation buff since I was 5 years old and finally have made a career change from sales and marketing to flight instructor building up flight time to fly for a regional airline.
I have to tell you, I have such an admiration for you. It takes serious intestinal fortitude to speak up for what is just and what is right. You did just that in your assessment of the 787 program. I was in Seattle this past summer to ferry a Cessna from Everett to Fort Lauderdale, where I live and I became brainwashed by Boeing. I love the fact that is Seattle everything is Boeing. I am just concerned that the 787 Program is going to hurt Boeing severely as well as their not having a solution to the growing narrow body market. It appears to me that too much money has been put into the 787 and 747-800 and nothing has been done about a new narrow body or improvements to the 737NG. It would be a sad day to see Southwest turn to Airbus. I still have a belief in the Boeing product.
I am planning a Summer trip to Seattle again, this time to take in the museum of flight and tour the 787 factory. I have to tell you, I would be honored to meet you and thank you for all you did for the 737 and Boeing. I am still an American who believes in the American dream and it is people like you that made the American dream a reality.
I would like to thank you for reading my email and I hope to hear from you.
Some great pictures there.
I wanted to comment on the great pictures of plant II on your website. They
are a really nice tribute and I was happy to see them. As an aviation
enthusiast (and Army helicopter mechanic for the past 15 years) I love all
things aviation and was wondering if it's possible to track down a piece of
the hangar for my WWII collection. Whether it be a small piece of metal or
something, I think it would be a great way to preserve the memory of such a
I would appreciate any assistance you might be able to provide.
SGT Mike M
I loved the story of the end of an era & your story of Roy's test flights.
This summer I plan to take my 1st. ride on a 17 from the lone star flight mus. in Galveston Tx. or with the Collins foundation's 17.
In 2007 I went to Fredrick Ok. & flew with the WW II airbourne dimastration teem reenactors for the paratroopers of WW II it was 20degrees in jan. of 07 & at 1000 ft. it was darn cold!!! I filmed the boys as I call them stand up - hook up & hit the door a runnin on their 4th jump of the 5 it took them to earn their jump wings.
The energery they showed I would have jump too!! if given a shoot.
In 2003 I went to england & visited some of the bases.
Podington , Grafton-Underwood, & several others. In 2004 I went to Normandie for the 60th aniversery of D-Day .
In the fall of 07 we went to Bastonge & meet with Don Malarky & Buck Compton of the Band of Brothers. I have meet 5 of them so far.
I could go on & on but I'll stop for now.
Thanks R.J. 'Fuzzz' M
It was a great country.
………….. and great planes.
My family and I drove up to Seattle about 5 yrs ago to look specifically at the B-29 in front of the Air Museum. A volunteer told me the B-29 had just been taken into a hanger to begin restoration. Man was I disappointed. My dad flew 30 combat missions from Tinian over Japan, and I have yet to see a B-29 in person. Oh, well. It looks like the restoration is well underway. Good for you guys, please let me know when it's done so I can drive up and look at it. Hah Hah, amazing building and history.
Beautiful pictures, and story. Thank you for posting it.
A friend just sent me your wonderful piece of work on Boeing Plant 2. I really enjoyed it. Is that the plant where the offices were when I was up there about 10 years ago?
January 07, 2011
Great site for airplane buffs
I came across a great web site that you true aviation buffs out there probably already know about. Bob Bogash, a former Boeing employee in Seattle, has an amazing site and put up this outstanding documentary, for lack of a better word, about the closing of Boeing's old Plant 2 in Seattle.
Some great photos there of the final three planes to move out of the plant: a B-17, a B-29 and a Constellation. And a lot of history about the great work and great planes of Boeing.
- Bob Cox
Read more: http://blogs.star-telegram.com/sky_talk/2011/01/great-site-for-airplane-buffs.html#ixzz1AOjmZqEN
Certainly one of the best links in recent memory. Fun pics and story...thanks.
Thank you for the post. It really is quite sad.
I am an avionics technician/A&P mechanic who was there when they shut the doors of Pan AM at JFK and Northwest Airlines faded into memory at MSP.
Bob, It's a wonderful site, was passed on to me this morning. Air Force 1 caught my eye because my father-in-law C/MSgt. Bill Criswell and MSgt. Edward Johnson my wife's uncle where flight engineers with the 707. Uncle Eddie passed in the early 90's and Chris as we called him on Nov. 11, 2009.
Just thought maybe you remembered them! Chris told me he was with that plane from the first rivet put in her, plus all test they put her through.
Thanks for your time.
Dale E. A.
I just wanted to thank you Bob, for your article on the final days of the 2-40 & 2-41 buildings.
I have a history with them as well. Although not as fulfilled as your history with them, mine is somewhat a tear jerker as well.
My experiences start on the other side of the work force. I was in the USAF from 1968-1972. I was trained and worked in the Electronic Counter Measures field. ECM My first assignment was the B52 C's and D' was in Westover Massachusetts. I went on to Kadina Okinawa. My job insisted that I crawl thru all of the big plane, repairing the equipment that was spread all over her, from the tail gunner's cabin to the nose cone. I did so for 2 years. Who knew that 20 years later, I would work in the building they were made in. It was truly a jaw dropping experience for me. In 1980, I transferred from the DC where the ALCM started, into Facilities, where I worked on some of the newest NC equipment at Boeing. Column C7 was the Maintenance crib. In your photos, I can almost see the crib where I worked back then. I have driven thru the empty halls and spaces in the last two years, and it is so very sad to see it just slip away in the night like this. To bad they can't save part of it for the Museum. I looked over the B-17 that was there at the time, and she looked good there. I have a picture beside my desk here in Renton of the Renton plant as it looked in 1945. That is surreal as well.
My job now is still in Facilities Maintenance, and I still work in the CNC repair. But now it's with the most financially successful operation in the company. The 737. The rest is another story.
Thanks again for your article. I would like very much to get a hard copy of your article and the pictures if possible. My mail stop and phone (on 3rd shift) is below.
Hi, Bob: I haven't seen the B-50 mentioned. Didn't it come out after the B-29?
Yes, and also the B-307 Stratoliner (and also the Douglas DB-7.) I tried to keep it fairly short and sweet.
B-50s on the Plant II ramp.
Richard G K
thats a real cool web site check out the B-52 pics
Bob - I am an ex-Boeing employee from 1963. My first job out of Texas Tech was with Boeing in New Orleans working on the Saturn V launch vehicle. I have visited the Museum twice and noticed that even though there is a section on the Space Program, most of the exhibits are on McDonald- Douglas contributions. Why is there no mention of the fact that Boeing was the prime contractor on the Saturn V? Surely, they could at least show some pictures of that vehicle. There was a great scale model of it in the Boeing lobby of the Barone Bldg.
They never would have gotten those three men to the moon and back without Boeing. :-)
BTW, I finished my career at Pratt & Whitney in Fla.
A friend sent me a link to your Boeing Hanger II demise and it was great looking at all of the historic aircraft pics. You probably have the same feelings about the closing as I did when the Bell System came to an end in 1983. I started with Pacific Telephone 31 Mar 1970 after I got back from a stint in 'Nam with the Army Sig Corps. I retired 1/11/08 after 38 yrs with PT&T, PacBell, SBC and finally, AT&T.
I am perusing your site now and you did a great job on layout. Great looking at all the pics of the aviation pioneers like Kelly Johnson. Keep up the great work!
73, de k6tpk
Heck of a piece of history.
Reminds me of "The Best Years of Our Lives" when Dana Andrews visits the B-XX grave yard.